God

Now this I am very curious about. Do any of you believe in God? If so why. Do any of you not believe in God? Again, if so why.

Im not making any assumptions. I just want to know about your faith

i beleive in God and i also know that God created the world because there is no way that it could be made without him. i also beleive that God sent his son to die for our sins

WHAT TRUTH!!

lol Im amazed. Really.


I had the debate about God recently with a doctor. This man is highly educated, and rather clever.

So I present this to you. This doctor believed that evolution was the only possible logical explenation to how life began and had evolved on earth. He was EXTREMELY convincing. His argument had one critical flaw.

How do you argue against evolution?

I will give you his thoughts and Id like to hear how you would respond.

In a nutshell:
The first lifeforms were blue algae. Through mass over production they covered the earth completly over billions of years. Eventually gentic mutation started the process of prededation (where one animal is hunted by the other so it must evolve to build a natural defense and save its species). Billions of years passed and these creatures moved to walk on land and would eventually become monkeys wou would later become you and I.

Sounds crazy? Sounds logical? your thoughts

it is highly improbable for chemical evolution to occur, scientist have never once been able to create life in a test tube... They hope to one day.
It goes against the second law of thermodynamics, stating that when a chemical reaction occurs it brings about more chaos and entropy, not the other way around, more order, needed for life.

I think most people believe or want to believe in evolution, because well, thats what is being shoved in their face, and also because they don't want to man up and realize that they are accountable for their sins.

OK back to the evolution stuff, lets think about what if you wake up one morning and see a box of alphabet cereal spilled on the table and you see the letters in order saying "take out the garbage mom" would you think "oh wow thats incredibal" well thats my point in evolution. [And think about this, someone had to bump into the box of cereal, and the alphabet, (the abc's -- the chemicals(the 22 amino acids, needed to reprocuce or perhaps the ATCG, including Uracel, needed for the RNA synthesis) were already constructed for us

now evolutionist counter that claim by saying "over millions and millions of years, in lots of muddy beaches.. etc etc etc..) It just doesn't add up and sooner or later we are going to have to break this law that----

Pasteur and other scientists disproved the concept of spontaneous generation and established the “law of biogenesis” — that life comes only from previous life. (that was copied and pasted so you know)

now what I believe breaks no Law! A law is something that is a definitive belief, that always must be true... I believe that GOD, or LIFE created the first cells, (one cell for a bird, another for a fish etc...)

it takes more "faith" to believe that from the ocean, came forth a really nice ferrari, than it does for us to believe that someone with a brain, created it.


so check this out, there was this huge storm right?? and after it was over check out what I found on the beach!! hoollllyyyy... you want to ride??

I MEAN COMMON!!!!

OK and then I left out the part about how we over all the animals as far as we know, can contemplate the existence of God, how do we know what is right or wrong?? The bible says that the gentile (us) has the law written on our heart) soo morals have been built into us. I guess, but where do they come from, what scale do we measure by, well... I think its the scale of perfection, noww... where and howw... have we received this scale, well it evolved of course! to keep us safe, and to allow us to become more fit for survival! NOOOO!!!! thats not where it came from... The scale comes fom God, and he is perfection.


OK so I have seen this so many times, people have been taught, by there college professors, that religion is bad, and that it kills people, NO people kill people and use religion as an excuse, that is no exuse..

OK I am done... part 2 coming out soon...

oh, evolution is saying that we all came from one cell, and that the cell mutated so many times and stuff... but the only evidence we have for evolution, is micro evolution which is small variations, we do not see fish becoming animals with legs, or anything like that, we should be able to see these things much much more, especially if things grow at different rates, again things seem like they are starting to make sense... then they don't add up!

Some very good points Jack.

Now heres what an evolutionist would argue:

Scientists can easily create life in test tubes. Its called cloning

Evolution does work with the second law of thermodynamics as everything tends towards chaos, life adapts as such to fit its new restrictions. Some fish will grow to enormous lengths in open water, but when placed in a smaller environment the fish will not grow as big so as to fit in its environment. This is called adaptation. When the blue algae covered the Earth on a mass scale they were forced to compete with one another for survivol. They adapted. Those that did not adapt died off along with thier genetic code. Those that did survive passed along their genetic structure to the next generation. These adaptions were small, such as developing a stem to be used as a weapon. Through this cycle over billions of years of survival adaptation brought about the fish. The fish in order to escape predators needed a way to retreat to land. So it began to develop lungs. This process continued until we get to where we are today.

This process took billions and bilions of years to occur. We know the universe has existed this long from measuring light from distant stars, seeing how long it has to travel versus how far away the star is.

Genetic mutation is very real. Use a virus as an example. The genetic structure changes all the time in order to combat our vaccinations.

The genetic code is not as complicated as you may think. There is not part of the genome that says ok now make a heart then make an arm then how about a good smile over here. The DNA is a map. Certain cells go where they are told. They dont have to be heart cells but they eventually turn into those.



I am sorry if this is not as fluid as my usual typings. Im on medication and its makin me pretty loopy.

Well ok, the evolution theory has a lot of solid points and we can learn from it, but it is a theory, not fact. And like many other theories it has several holes in it. I am no expert on the matter but if you google it, you will find several of these holes. Jack hit on one. If we evolved from monkeys, how come there aren't human/monkeys out there, that haven't gotten to the evolution stage we are at now. How does it make sense that only the first stage, the monkey, and the final stage, the human, are present on earth today. Another hole in the theory and my personal favorite flaw, altruism. altruism is a selfless act to benefit another while putting the perpetrator at a personal loss. This is exhibited in animals and humans (there is speculation as to whether true altruism exists in humans, some say every selfless act a human exhibits has a reward, for example, a good conscience for helping a stranger in danger). A type of gopher does this, where when it senses a predator nearby it will scream. This alerts the nearby pack to scatter and the screamer almost always gets killed by the predator. According to the evolutionary theory, this attribute would have died out because the gene holder continually met its fate. Charles Darwin saw this hole and his solution was the kin selection theory. That the animals are more likely to save those in its family, who will carry the same gene. Others say group selection theory, that those groups who have the altruist are more likely to survive than those without. However, all it would take is a single mutant who had no altruism to take down the whole group. One researcher of altruism, Samuel Oliner, boiled it down to one thing, love. I agree with Samuel Oliner completely, the existence of love today contradicts how the evolution theory explains adaptation. Love has shown time and time again, that it is not beneficial for our survival and those that care about nothing, have an easier time surviving in this world. We all know, that no one can care about nothing, and that love is present in every human's heart and evolution cannot explain that.

BEAUTIFUL!
Truly elegant my friend.


It really makes me happy to know you guys know your stuff. Nothing gets me in a tiff more than the christian who belives just to believe. What is a belief if you cant defend it?

Really excellent explanation.

The way I like to look at it is the foundation of the evolutionist argument. The literal foundation, its begining. Evolutionists tend to hold themselves in a higher perspective than others, menaing they tend to be more elitist than others, believing that science is the only true answer. They throw out their billions and billions of years and adaption theories and stories of prededation and DNA. They try to trick you with big words and fancy sounding scientific facts, when really the evolution belief has no true foundation. What do I mean? If you ever talk to an evolutionist they love to talk about time progressing foward. Try mentioning time past. They bring up the big bang theory and again your ears are put through scientiffic mumbo and jargon that makes you look like a simple philistine. The beauty comes when you ask an evolutionist one simple question.


What banged the big bang?


Nothing to scientiffic their ( in fact that might be grammatically incorrect) but still it has the same affect. They can never explain the very begining. They have an answer to all of life except its most important part, its start. Science has never been able to produce something from nothing, which is exactly what happened with creation.

God is truly magnificant and beautiful.

Hey just thought I would throw it out there. What if someone brought up the point that creating Amino Acids in a test tube is possible. Some scientists has Carbon, Hydrogen, Oxygen, and Nitrogen molecules in a test tube, shocked the crap out of it, and amino acids were starting to build up against the walls of the test tube. How do you argue absolute proof that it is possible to create the building blocks of life in extreme environments? The earth use to be one of the most Hostile places in the galaxy. It is very possible that the conditions existed to be able to produce these "Building Blocks" for life. I personally believe that God created everything. But did He have a direct hand in making us? Or did He just create the means for our creation? I do not doubt God in any way. It is commonly said that God works in Mysterious ways. Could Evolution be one?

A valid point Jordan and one that I find myself in constant thought over.

My conclusion is this

If we can agree that God truly exists then we can conclude that everything He says He has done He really has done. Unless God wants to trick us about EVERYTHING, and I imagine He wouldnt as being a deciever isnt really in his job description, then we can assume everything in the Bible is the truth. What makes the story of the ressurection any less plausible than that of creation? Why would the God of all tell the truth about some parts but make up others?

we don't have to assume that everything in the bible is truth, I can prove it is the truth! and therefore whatever the bible says, is true..

well first we have to know that we were created by God, and I can prove that easily, we are in the exact position, not to far away, and not to close to the sun, if we were either an inch closer, or farther away, we would freeze or fry, and if the earth didn't tilt just the way it does, half the globe would freeze and we would wobble out of orbit and die............. wow so Jupiter is sitting in front of us like a vacuum, sucking all the metioroids to it, so its like crazy!!!!!!!! OK SOOO

my conclusion is we were created.

and if we were created, this means there has to be a creator....

who is this creator, well the religion with the most historical documents
(and I am saying that blindly)

the religion that seems to have the facts straight is Christianity.
Now some people say, oh well there is lots of different stories about Noah and the arc! not just in christianity, OK I am told, that means that none of its true!

I think when you have lots of different similar stories, its proving the fact that those things really did happen, and Jesus said, if you dont believe in my for what I say, believe in me for what I do... so many people thing that Jesus was a great guy, but the one difference between him and Ghandi, is Jesus raised the dead, and he did all kinds of amazing miracles... which is backed up not only in the bible, but in many other historical texts.. much more than any other religion or historical text. ( I can get a huge list if I need to)


last thing, do you know what is crazy, in the bible it says "in the beginning the world was void, and without form, so the earth has been around a really long time, but the beginning actually was after the world was already there...

and now that I think about it there is actually two creation stories, I will have to take a look. (again)

alright well thats alot to think about but once again this is simple and probably very argueable but for the evoloutionist, how did that algea come to life or how did it start. im not to educated on evoulution being that i am only in 7th grade... but it just doesent make any sense that alge could evolve to animals then the animals evolve to humans. so i couldent really think of th\at much but i thought i would just add that in

The process from Algae to HUman occured through a billion year process known as prededation.

Prededation is when a species must adapt in order to survive being killed by a predator. The key to this theory is the length of time needed along with various minor adaptations that lead into evolution.

THis is the simplest way to put it.


Jack couldnt it all (earth position, tilt, jupiter) just be coincidence?

Branden on coincidence. This is simply my perception, I don't understand how the sun doesn't fly towards us and burn us alive, the moon doesn't fall on top of us and crush us. Gravity doesn't completely disappear along with our oxygen supply and we suffocate. I think about every star and different planet created out there and how they haven't collided and destroyed each other. I think about all of the animals and plant life living in harmony on this planet. I think about many crazy elements that can make such amazing things when mixed heated or cooled to certain conditions. I think of every law from thermodynamics to other types of physics, and when i put all of this together I think, "You know it would take some body with not only perfect power, but also a perfect brain." There is only one being that comes to mind when i think of that

your right Branden, it could be just coincidence, but I think I will side with the most probable answer. a creator...

"the celestial comity of design"

I find more proof in God by the very fact that the more human kind learns. The more knowledge about the very fabric that hold this universe together on so many levels. The more intuition we gain. The less we know. The less we can comprehend. There is so much to be discovered.


I love the fact that scientists can say. "the more we understand, the less we know." Its just a perfect metaphor for how crazy awesome God is. And the very fact that he made this universe. There is no understanding God. There is no understand his creations. We are created by him. For him. Praise the Lord people we are living in the time of our God!


I think its funny when people argue the fact that God couldn't create the earth in 7 days. I just like to tell them that God is timless. He could do it in all in a milisecond if he wanted. His mana would just be low for a while.

hahahahahahahahah

Is it sad that I got the mana joke?

No not on a website thats dedicated to the GREASTEST VIDEO GAME CLAN EVA!!! lol


And jack the more "probable" answer of a creator is as such to you because of the belief system you were raised in. It is highly unprobable to an evolutionist.

In conclusion, I am with Jordan and this brings me to a quote I like. "God's a Scientist" The evolution theory is valid in many ways but still has holes and is a work in progress, I just believe God set it forth, and created the means for our creation, because I believe I have seen him do that in other areas of our lives. In the old testament he discusses that children pay the price for their parents sins. This is so true but maybe not in the way you might initially think. Sorry if i hit on a sensitive topic but children of divorced parents are more likely to get divorced. Children of abuse are more likely to be abusive. These are all true statistics, if anyone doubts that I will cite several reliable sources in reply. I believe God designed it this way, I dont know why, and i often disagree with it but my point is: God is in the business of setting things in motion and maybe not directly initiating something, but putting everything in place with clear intentions.